eyed look on his face. anyhow, i met him then. at one point during the interview 15 years ago he starteded pretending to cry. you know, i'm innocent of all the crimes. he was like crying but it was like kind of pretending to cry. it seemed like a very odd, you know, at the time i was thinking, i can't do anything with this guy because we're not connecting on any kind of human level. later when i was thinking, wow, is it true that psychopaths rule the world which is what psychologists believe, which is what the book is about, that basically the brain anomaly that psychopaths suffer from is the brain anomaly that affects us all. >> jon: talking about the book i was expecting everything to be the guy who has the bodies buried in the backyard. it's very prevalent and you work with them.